Kansas City @ The Crossroads

The issue of illegal immigration brought one of the most contentious discussions in the short history of Kansas City @ the Crossroads, Ingram's series with KCPT-Television. The question for this gathering was: Is the Kansas City metropolitan area hurt or helped by the number of illegal immigrants?

The sides were evenly divided between those who believe that since there is a law against migrating to the United States without the proper paperwork it ought to be enforced, and those who believe that the law is corrupt and unfair and therefore should be largely ignored. It made for a lively discussion to say the least.

The participants were Jerry Agar, host of the afternoon talk show on KMBZ radio and a legal immigrant from Canada; Judith Ancel, Director of the Institute for Labor Studies at UMKC and Longview Community College, and the granddaughter of immigrants; Joe Arce, Publisher of Kansas City Hispanic News; Lynda Callon, Director of Westside Community Action Network (CAN) Center, a neighborhood and community policing organization; Jack Cashill, Executive Editor, Ingram’s Magazine; Kris Kobach, Professor of Law at UMKC and U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft’s chief advisor on immigration issues between 2001-03; Melinda Lewis, Director of Policy Advocacy and Research at El Centro; and Annalisa Zapien-Pina, a community activist and a political activist for the Republican party.

Illegal Immigrants vs. Undocumented Workers

Moderator Nick Haines opened the discussion by quoting the Federation of American Immigration Reform, which calls immigration a national crisis. With all the other issues that are so prominent in America these days, he wanted to know if the issue of illegal immigration is being overblown.

Ancel stated that it is, quickly adding that issues of wages and economic well-being of individuals are more worthy of study. “The issue is being used to scapegoat a group of people who can’t defend themselves,” she said.

That drew the attention of Jerry Agar, who said he speaks about the issue with regularity on his show because it’s on people’s minds, and says the reason so many people are having trouble making ends meet is because of the excess taxes they have to pay “to facilitate felons.” He called illegal immigrants more than just those who couldn’t defend themselves. He wanted clarity between legal and illegal immigration.

“It’s not xenophobic to say that it’s wrong to break into this country and commit felonies on a regular basis,” Agar said.

Melinda Lewis said the crisis is not immigration but the immigration system.

Joe Arce added that national political leaders need to get together to discuss the topic. “It has to start at the top,” he said. He then pointed to the 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States from Mexico and said if they all returned to Mexico at once it would collapse the Mexican economy.

Kris Kobach said the cost of those 12 million people is being borne by the American taxpayers. He quoted estimates saying the cost is around $65 billion per year. He also noted that illegal immigrants potentially could pose national security risks.

Lewis disputed Kobach’s numbers. She referred to studies that stated that immigrants bring a large amount of income to the United States treasury, far more than is spent to support them.

That drew Agar’s wrath. He pointed out that Lewis’ numbers include all immigrants, not just illegal immigrants. He said the later group is a tax drain that legal immigrants and other citizens both support “in the education system, the court system, and Medicare and Medicaid. It’s a tremendous drain on the American system.”

Judith Ancel claimed that the reason the illegal immigrants were such a financial drain was that they receive low wages and many times don’t receive what they have earned. “If they had labor rights, the right to form unions,” they would be more productive economically.

“Why should they have labor rights; they’re illegal?” Agar countered.

Ancel continued on her previous path. “If they could improve themselves and get raises and earn more, instead of being used as the cheapest possible labor, they would pay more taxes,” she said.

She also objected to the term “felons,” claiming that it was unfair to lump them in with other criminals. “To criminalize them in such a way to make them the equivalent to hardened criminals is scapegoating that has gone on far too long,” she said.

Kobach then disputed a couple of things he had heard previously. He quoted 2002 U.S. Census numbers to support his contention that illegal immigrants cost U.S. taxpayers (including figures from the states) more than $60 billion annually.

He also stated the studies had shown that illegal immigrants had caused average wages to drop 4 percent over the past five years. Among unskilled labor jobs, wages have dropped 7 percent in that period.

The Growing Complexities of Illegal Immigration? Americans at-odds With Immigration Issues by David Smale
The issue of illegal immigration brought one of the most contentious discussions in the short history of Kansas City @ the Crossroads, Ingram's series with KCPT-Television. The question for this gathering was: Is the Kansas City metropolitan area hurt or helped by the number of illegal immigrants? The sides were evenly divided between those who believe that since there is a law against migrating to the United States without the proper paperwork it ought to be enforced, and those who believe that the law is corrupt and unfair and therefore should be largely ignored. It made for a lively discussion to say the least. The participants were Jerry Agar, host of the afternoon talk show on KMBZ radio and a legal immigrant from Canada; Judith Ancel, Director of the Institute for Labor Studies at UMKC and Longview Community College, and the granddaughter of immigrants; Joe Arce, Publisher of Kansas City Hispanic News; Lynda Callon, Director of Westside Community Action Network (CAN) Center, a neighborhood and community policing organization; Jack Cashill, Executive Editor, Ingram’s Magazine; Kris Kobach, Professor of Law at UMKC and U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft’s chief advisor on immigration issues between 2001-03; Melinda Lewis, Director of Policy Advocacy and Research at El Centro; and Annalisa Zapien-Pina, a community activist and a political activist for the Republican party. Illegal Immigrants vs. Undocumented Workers Moderator Nick Haines opened the discussion by quoting the Federation of American Immigration Reform, which calls immigration a national crisis. With all the other issues that are so prominent in America these days, he wanted to know if the issue of illegal immigration is being overblown. Ancel stated that it is, quickly adding that issues of wages and economic well-being of individuals are more worthy of study. “The issue is being used to scapegoat a group of people who can’t defend themselves,” she said. That drew the attention of Jerry Agar, who said he speaks about the issue with regularity on his show because it’s on people’s minds, and says the reason so many people are having trouble making ends meet is because of the excess taxes they have to pay “to facilitate felons.” He called illegal immigrants more than just those who couldn’t defend themselves. He wanted clarity between legal and illegal immigration. “It’s not xenophobic to say that it’s wrong to break into this country and commit felonies on a regular basis,” Agar said. Melinda Lewis said the crisis is not immigration but the immigration system. Joe Arce added that national political leaders need to get together to discuss the topic. “It has to start at the top,” he said. He then pointed to the 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States from Mexico and said if they all returned to Mexico at once it would collapse the Mexican economy. Kris Kobach said the cost of those 12 million people is being borne by the American taxpayers. He quoted estimates saying the cost is around $65 billion per year. He also noted that illegal immigrants potentially could pose national security risks. Lewis disputed Kobach’s numbers. She referred to studies that stated that immigrants bring a large amount of income to the United States treasury, far more than is spent to support them. That drew Agar’s wrath. He pointed out that Lewis’ numbers include all immigrants, not just illegal immigrants. He said the later group is a tax drain that legal immigrants and other citizens both support “in the education system, the court system, and Medicare and Medicaid. It’s a tremendous drain on the American system.” Judith Ancel claimed that the reason the illegal immigrants were such a financial drain was that they receive low wages and many times don’t receive what they have earned. “If they had labor rights, the right to form unions,” they would be more productive economically. “Why should they have labor rights; they’re illegal?” Agar countered. Ancel continued on her previous path. “If they could improve themselves and get raises and earn more, instead of being used as the cheapest possible labor, they would pay more taxes,” she said. She also objected to the term “felons,” claiming that it was unfair to lump them in with other criminals. “To criminalize them in such a way to make them the equivalent to hardened criminals is scapegoating that has gone on far too long,” she said. Kobach then disputed a couple of things he had heard previously. He quoted 2002 U.S. Census numbers to support his contention that illegal immigrants cost U.S. taxpayers (including figures from the states) more than $60 billion annually. He also stated the studies had shown that illegal immigrants had caused average wages to drop 4 percent over the past five years. Among unskilled labor jobs, wages have dropped 7 percent in that period.