John Murphy took the opportunity to explain Shook Hardy's move to Crown Center. "Would we have liked to stay downtown? Sure," said Murphy. He cited his partner Pat McLarney as one of those most keen on staying. But after looking at several options, some of which fell through, like the proposed KCPL entertainment district, "Crown Center became the most attractive to us."

Introducing a sub-theme that was to run throughout the afternoon, Murphy observed, "I like to think we're not moving away from downtown." Although his view of downtown is not as expansive as the hyperbolic one seen in a recent Lee Judge cartoon, Murphy did subscribe to the one presented by Mayor Kay Barnes, that is the River-Crown-Plaza concept. "I haven't heard much comment [from the employees] at all about our movement being an abandonment of downtown," said Murphy. "Most feel we are staying within the urban core."

Dick King affirmed Murphy's position. "Look out the window," he challenged his colleagues, "and tell me you are not in the urban core when you are in these offices." The Lathrop & Gage offices are located on the northern edge of the Crown Center complex. From them one looks west to Union Station and north to downtown with nary a sub-division or a strip mall in between.

"I would like to challenge The Kansas City Star's self-pronounced definition of downtown," King continued. "The paper has become very divisive on this issue." King worried that the constant negative reporting on the subject has not only created division among business leaders, but it has also soured much of the public on anything related to the urban core, including Crown Center and the Plaza. Agreed Peter Brown, "It is a misnomer to identify urban core as inside the loop." He continued, "Whoever does that is making a mistake, including The Kansas City Star."

As to the precise definition of down- town, Jerry Riffel, like King, Brown and Murphy, thought it considerably larger than the interstate "loop." Still, Riffel argued that "the loop has to have a special place in downtown and be given the greatest priority."

Jennifer Bacon made a necessary comparative point that is often lost in discussions of the city. The urban core does not spiral outwards from downtown, she argued, but rather it runs as an axis "right down the center of the city" from at least the river to the Plaza. She described this axis as a "remarkable configuration," one anchored by strong neighborhoods and unique to Kansas City. "That big vision of that tremendous urban axis is the one we ought to focus on."

Russ Welsh reminded the participants there were other areas of urban environment that are active and ought to be celebrated, and here he cited the Brush Creek corridor. "Urban America has a lot more values than problems," said Welsh.

Given the viable intersecting axes of Brush Creek and River-Crown-Plaza, the question was raised as to whether the loop area might benefit from some selective thinning. "If you do that," said Riffel, "you still need an urban environment that people want to be in, not just surface parking". He recommended a new plan suggested for Downtown that would create a walkable corridor down Wynadotte and over the tracks to the area around the Convention Center.

John Murphy agreed that although the distance from Downtown to Crown Center was not far, perhaps a mile, neither terminus was a "walking destination." The result is that we treat them "as two separate entities." Murphy argued that if there were adequate development between the two, "We would not be having this discussion." Maybe, he added, "An arena would help."